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	<title>Comments for Sacred Duty</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sacredduty.net/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sacredduty.net</link>
	<description>A Protection Paladin Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 01:45:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Modeling Seal of Insight by Theck</title>
		<link>http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/05/13/modeling-seal-of-insight/#comment-3909</link>
		<dc:creator>Theck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 01:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sacredduty.net/?p=2945#comment-3909</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s of no consequence, because both of those are above the Vengeance levels that you normally see in content.  If we were regularly exceeding 50% of our health in Vengeance, then it would act as a limiting valve.  Ironically, that would just strengthen Stamina even more.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s of no consequence, because both of those are above the Vengeance levels that you normally see in content.  If we were regularly exceeding 50% of our health in Vengeance, then it would act as a limiting valve.  Ironically, that would just strengthen Stamina even more.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Modeling Seal of Insight by Theck</title>
		<link>http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/05/13/modeling-seal-of-insight/#comment-3908</link>
		<dc:creator>Theck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 01:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sacredduty.net/?p=2945#comment-3908</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s not a bad idea.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s not a bad idea.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Protection Tier 15 Set Bonuses by Avery's Profiles - Page 5</title>
		<link>http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/01/24/protection-tier-15-set-bonuses/#comment-3906</link>
		<dc:creator>Avery's Profiles - Page 5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 22:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacredduty.net/?p=2415#comment-3906</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] overwrite it, but that&#039;s about it. I won&#039;t go into detail why, but it&#039;s explained nicely here: Protection Tier 15 Set Bonuses &#124; Sacred Duty TL;DR, consider the 2 piece as a bonus to casting WoG, not as a reason to cast it.  Speaking of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] overwrite it, but that&#039;s about it. I won&#039;t go into detail why, but it&#039;s explained nicely here: Protection Tier 15 Set Bonuses | Sacred Duty TL;DR, consider the 2 piece as a bonus to casting WoG, not as a reason to cast it.  Speaking of [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Modeling Seal of Insight by Awyndel</title>
		<link>http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/05/13/modeling-seal-of-insight/#comment-3903</link>
		<dc:creator>Awyndel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 11:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sacredduty.net/?p=2945#comment-3903</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah that makes a lot of sense. So basicly all stats are properly represented for preventing spikes or making them smaller/buying time.

I think reaction time is a part of throughput. But I can see now that the simulation properly represents the tank side of that.

I do think your hunch is right about the effect small heals can have on this. They are sort of mitigation in a way. We shouldn&#039;t underestimate the ones the tank can use themselves.

Thanks for the explanation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah that makes a lot of sense. So basicly all stats are properly represented for preventing spikes or making them smaller/buying time.</p>
<p>I think reaction time is a part of throughput. But I can see now that the simulation properly represents the tank side of that.</p>
<p>I do think your hunch is right about the effect small heals can have on this. They are sort of mitigation in a way. We shouldn&#8217;t underestimate the ones the tank can use themselves.</p>
<p>Thanks for the explanation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Modeling Seal of Insight by Paendamonium</title>
		<link>http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/05/13/modeling-seal-of-insight/#comment-3901</link>
		<dc:creator>Paendamonium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 19:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sacredduty.net/?p=2945#comment-3901</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Theck, I just saw a twitter post by Ghostcrawler that they are thinking about implementing a major change in the Vengeance cap: 30% of health in 10s and 50% in 25s. Obviously that is highly speculative, and they may change the numbers or decide not to make the change at all. I personally think they are going to make some kind of change; I think the idea of tanks leading the dps is something they want to squish, at least a little. Will this further nerf haste builds? I know from a survivability aspect the dps doesn&#039;t matter, but less attack power would mean weaker SoI and SS, right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Theck, I just saw a twitter post by Ghostcrawler that they are thinking about implementing a major change in the Vengeance cap: 30% of health in 10s and 50% in 25s. Obviously that is highly speculative, and they may change the numbers or decide not to make the change at all. I personally think they are going to make some kind of change; I think the idea of tanks leading the dps is something they want to squish, at least a little. Will this further nerf haste builds? I know from a survivability aspect the dps doesn&#8217;t matter, but less attack power would mean weaker SoI and SS, right?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Modeling Seal of Insight by Shalcker</title>
		<link>http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/05/13/modeling-seal-of-insight/#comment-3899</link>
		<dc:creator>Shalcker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 15:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sacredduty.net/?p=2945#comment-3899</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now that you got both Sacred Shield and Seal of Insight into simulation, can you also check strength as survival stat? Just to get general idea where it stands as far as survival is concerned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that you got both Sacred Shield and Seal of Insight into simulation, can you also check strength as survival stat? Just to get general idea where it stands as far as survival is concerned.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Modeling Seal of Insight by Theck</title>
		<link>http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/05/13/modeling-seal-of-insight/#comment-3889</link>
		<dc:creator>Theck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 May 2013 22:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sacredduty.net/?p=2945#comment-3889</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The &quot;slow death&quot; or &quot;trickle-down death&quot; concept was not so much that a healer *couldn&#039;t* keep up with the throughput of a long spike, but that they didn&#039;t.  I would argue that while most tank deaths are probably trickle-down deaths, it&#039;s not because healers are incapable of the amount of throughput required.

Rather, it&#039;s a switching time argument. They can&#039;t keep high throughput up all fight, of course, nor do they need to.  Instead, they use high-efficiency heals like HoTs to handle the low-throughput phases, and then switch into high-throughput mode when they see the tank dip significantly.  The speed at which they make that switch dictates whether you live or die - if they do it instantly, you&#039;re safe and topped off; if not, you might be in trouble.

Both mitigation and stamina extend that time.  I think the &quot;extra health was useless&quot; argument was heavily overplayed even in ICC - extra health is rarely useless, not the least of which because bosses do not hit for fixed amounts.  Boss melee swings have a pretty broad range of damage values, and then there&#039;s magical/environmental damage to consider.

The simulation covers most (all?) of the mitigation choices we actually have.  Reducing spike size increases the average time healers have to react, so looking at spike data essentially ranks the stamina and mitigation options in those terms.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;slow death&#8221; or &#8220;trickle-down death&#8221; concept was not so much that a healer *couldn&#8217;t* keep up with the throughput of a long spike, but that they didn&#8217;t.  I would argue that while most tank deaths are probably trickle-down deaths, it&#8217;s not because healers are incapable of the amount of throughput required.</p>
<p>Rather, it&#8217;s a switching time argument. They can&#8217;t keep high throughput up all fight, of course, nor do they need to.  Instead, they use high-efficiency heals like HoTs to handle the low-throughput phases, and then switch into high-throughput mode when they see the tank dip significantly.  The speed at which they make that switch dictates whether you live or die &#8211; if they do it instantly, you&#8217;re safe and topped off; if not, you might be in trouble.</p>
<p>Both mitigation and stamina extend that time.  I think the &#8220;extra health was useless&#8221; argument was heavily overplayed even in ICC &#8211; extra health is rarely useless, not the least of which because bosses do not hit for fixed amounts.  Boss melee swings have a pretty broad range of damage values, and then there&#8217;s magical/environmental damage to consider.</p>
<p>The simulation covers most (all?) of the mitigation choices we actually have.  Reducing spike size increases the average time healers have to react, so looking at spike data essentially ranks the stamina and mitigation options in those terms.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Modeling Seal of Insight by Theck</title>
		<link>http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/05/13/modeling-seal-of-insight/#comment-3888</link>
		<dc:creator>Theck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 May 2013 22:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sacredduty.net/?p=2945#comment-3888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, the proc chance is included (i.e. it&#039;s not guaranteed on every melee swing).  All I&#039;m saying is that in practice, procs that occur while you&#039;re avoiding 3 attacks in a row are meaningless, because you&#039;re probably already at full health.  To model that here, we&#039;d need a dynamic overhealing function to weaken the value of procs during those periods and leave the ones that occur during dangerous spikes alone.  

Which we could do, but it&#039;s a lot of work for not much benefit.  It won&#039;t have any effect on the top three or four levels of representation anyway, which is all we look at.  It will thin out the numbers below that, but we ignore them anyway.  

As far as TDR, it won&#039;t change that much.  Overall damage taken will be lower, obviously, and specs with smoother damage will probably see a little lower TDR than they &quot;should&quot; if more of those procs were overheal.  But even that is subjective, since it forces the assumption that you overheal a lot.  When in reality, your healers could spend those GCDs elsewhere.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, the proc chance is included (i.e. it&#8217;s not guaranteed on every melee swing).  All I&#8217;m saying is that in practice, procs that occur while you&#8217;re avoiding 3 attacks in a row are meaningless, because you&#8217;re probably already at full health.  To model that here, we&#8217;d need a dynamic overhealing function to weaken the value of procs during those periods and leave the ones that occur during dangerous spikes alone.  </p>
<p>Which we could do, but it&#8217;s a lot of work for not much benefit.  It won&#8217;t have any effect on the top three or four levels of representation anyway, which is all we look at.  It will thin out the numbers below that, but we ignore them anyway.  </p>
<p>As far as TDR, it won&#8217;t change that much.  Overall damage taken will be lower, obviously, and specs with smoother damage will probably see a little lower TDR than they &#8220;should&#8221; if more of those procs were overheal.  But even that is subjective, since it forces the assumption that you overheal a lot.  When in reality, your healers could spend those GCDs elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Modeling Seal of Insight by Awyndel</title>
		<link>http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/05/13/modeling-seal-of-insight/#comment-3886</link>
		<dc:creator>Awyndel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 May 2013 19:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sacredduty.net/?p=2945#comment-3886</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Im guessing you will model the proc chance in there. Sorry forget about this question. :P]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im guessing you will model the proc chance in there. Sorry forget about this question. <img src='http://www.sacredduty.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Modeling Seal of Insight by Awyndel</title>
		<link>http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/05/13/modeling-seal-of-insight/#comment-3881</link>
		<dc:creator>Awyndel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 17:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sacredduty.net/?p=2945#comment-3881</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another question. Going a bit off topic here but this has been on my mind for a while. It concerns the metrics in general, but this post reminded me of it.

In the simulations we mainly look at spike damage and not at sustained damage. I remember a while back in icecrown there was a discussion about armor and we ended up concluding that there was spike damage, and slow death ( trickly down death ) . Now I am going to asume ( I have missed a bit ) that since then the slow death has been incorporated and is represented by the long spikes here ( 6 or 7 hits ) . So that should be covered.

However that doesn&#039;t have me fully convinced that throughput alltogether isn&#039;t an issue at all. We know mana isn&#039;t, but is hps? The whole slow death idea was about the fact that if a healer can&#039;t keep you topped during a long spike, that the extra health was useless and should be converted into mitigation ( not avoidance ) .

Now this post makes it very clear that throughput in general isn&#039;t an issue at all. But what about during long spikes. I am especially wondering this since in this post you again brought up the possibility of underestimating extra heals during spikes. And extra hps is comparable to mitigation.

In the end we could wonder if we have any mitigation alternatives to health. There are plenty of stats but nothing is always on. There is no real effective health increase like armor.

I hope the question makes sence like this. I have a bit of trouble figuring how to put it. It is quite possible this was already answered and I missed it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another question. Going a bit off topic here but this has been on my mind for a while. It concerns the metrics in general, but this post reminded me of it.</p>
<p>In the simulations we mainly look at spike damage and not at sustained damage. I remember a while back in icecrown there was a discussion about armor and we ended up concluding that there was spike damage, and slow death ( trickly down death ) . Now I am going to asume ( I have missed a bit ) that since then the slow death has been incorporated and is represented by the long spikes here ( 6 or 7 hits ) . So that should be covered.</p>
<p>However that doesn&#8217;t have me fully convinced that throughput alltogether isn&#8217;t an issue at all. We know mana isn&#8217;t, but is hps? The whole slow death idea was about the fact that if a healer can&#8217;t keep you topped during a long spike, that the extra health was useless and should be converted into mitigation ( not avoidance ) .</p>
<p>Now this post makes it very clear that throughput in general isn&#8217;t an issue at all. But what about during long spikes. I am especially wondering this since in this post you again brought up the possibility of underestimating extra heals during spikes. And extra hps is comparable to mitigation.</p>
<p>In the end we could wonder if we have any mitigation alternatives to health. There are plenty of stats but nothing is always on. There is no real effective health increase like armor.</p>
<p>I hope the question makes sence like this. I have a bit of trouble figuring how to put it. It is quite possible this was already answered and I missed it.</p>
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