The Valor Point Grind and Dailies

Hey all, it’s Ana back with some more commentary regarding Mists of Grindaria.

Now that we are four weeks into the expansion, some of the excitement has worn off, and we’ve certainly all gone back to work and in some rare cases, to non-video-game related activities. We are all asking ourselves, “how do I fit WOW into my real life,” and the answer still seems to be, “with great difficulty.”

Let’s talk about an issue that very suddenly kicked into seriously high gear for anyone who raids: the Valor Point grind and how it translates into dailies.

Raiders and VP: We need to cap each week.

Valor Point gear is extremely relevant, with MSV missing quite a few slots of gear for most of us. I am planning to pick up anywhere from 4 to 6 pieces. We definitely want to be capping VP every week.

Unfortunately this is a much, much harder task once you have begun to raid than it was before raids kicked into gear. Why? Because Blizzard has chosen to reward us with only 150 points — 15% of our VP — for raiding.

……… Wat?

For the record, I am NOT asking for raiding to completely cap VP. This is a very important point, because I know the devs are quite tired of hearing from raiders who want their VP handed to them on a silver platter. I don’t think raiders should get a completely free pass. I accept that as someone who desires to cap VP, I have to put in a fair amount of effort.

But 150 VP is stupidly low.

Think about what someone who is not raiding would do, when logged in for those 12 hours a week which I spent in MSV. They will almost certainly be earning more than 150 VP.

As with many MOP activities, the effort/reward ratio here is completely off.

MOP is designed to provide and encourage variety. Players are encouraged to log in more often and do a wider range of stuff, from the return to daily activities to the double-bonus on your “first” whatever of the day (heroic, scenario, etc).

I don’t have an issue with this design– it’s really rather interesting, to be honest, once I take a breath and try to appreciate the variety of things I do. I am just really unhappy that the rewards they provide seem in some cases, very…. poorly tuned.

Let’s discuss strategies for capping VP

Here is the VP you can expect to gain as a raider. Ignoring all options except raiding & dailies:

  • 6/6 MSV = 150 VP
  • LFR = 180 VP
  • 134 Dailies

Let’s consider this in terms of hours. I’m already tossing 12 hours at MSV, and 2 or 3 hours at LFR with terrible pugs… and yeah, it can take 3 hours to do all 6 bosses depending on how many people fall through the floor on LFR Elegon. Having done all of this, I need to do 134 dailies or daily-equivalent activites to cap.

Huh. That is… a lot.

So we all want to actually keep playing WOW without going fucking crazy and breaking into Blizzard HQ screaming about bloody murder and Klaxxi dailies. I’m sure Blizzard wants us to fill that VP cap with a variety of things. Let’s consider a different mix of activities.

Daily Heroics: 60 VP for the first each day.

  • 6/6 MSV = 150 VP
  • LFR = 180 VP
  • 5 daily heroics = 300 VP
  • 74 dailies

I’m not going to say 7 daily heroics because I have to balance, somehow, work + raiding + life. I thought that estimating 5 per week was reasonable.

Right. So if you manage 5 daily heroics this brings your required Daily Quest total down to 74. This is still a really scary number of dailies to do, and the hour total for grinding here is still very high.

What if we want to cap VP entirely with raiding and heroics?

This is possible, but massively annoying. You would have to run all 7 daily heroics and then fit 9 more heroics in there. This means if you hated dailes, you’d have to do a whole 16 heroics / week, on top of your raiding and your LFR to cap.

Wow. Sounds like you can’t really avoid dailies entirely.

Scenarios : 30 VP for the first each day.

Ugh. This is not my target content and I don’t really enjoy running them. The first one does reward 30 VP, though. Worth 6 dailies. You can select which you hate more.

Challenge Modes: 60 VP for Gold, 50 for Silver, 40 for Bronze

Challenge Modes represent another VP option. I can tell you right now that Challenge Modes are really cool! And… they require a fair amount of dedication. First of all, they are really not an option unless you have 4 friends and voicechat. Secondly, while Bronze is supposedly “not too hard,” I have a feeling that even Bronze will challenge a lot of people. I have dipped my toes into CM’s with a group composed of really intelligent people and experienced HM raiders. We worked through three instances without trying for a time, just to see what challenge modes were like, and received: a Silver, a Bronze, and a hilarious hour-plus no-reward clear. I had a blast and I want to do more, but it certainly required committed an evening.

You really do have to commit, and sit down to do that Challenge Mode; it’s not like just queuing up for something or doing dailies while you hang out with people in vent.

You will certainly gain VP if you put a group together for these and start to clear them, but I hesitate to say that they are an effective method of gaining it.

Daily Challenge Mode: 100 VP ( worth 20 dailies!)

Now, depending on what it is, this can be very useful, if it’s one of the shorter or easier ones. This rewards 60 VP plus 40 for Bronze (which you can reasonably expect to get even with wiping). Even if it takes an hour, well, I think 100 VP is a very good trade off for an hour. That translates into 20 dailies to skip. It’ll never happen on a raid night for me, but it’s an effective 100 VP if I find a group on the weekend.

Anyways, I could go on.

My point here is to show how much higher the VP cap feels, this expansion, than it ever has before. It’s really pretty difficult to get to, especially for raiders, when you realize what a fart’s worth of VP comes out of MSV and how very little it will contribute to your journey towards the cap.

Oh, and… this massive, massive pile of dailies prevents us all from slowing down our rep grinds.

We’ve all been complaining about rep grinds and how required they feel. You know, those people saying chill out, they really do have a point.

All of us really need to have a look at our VP purchase plans, think about how fast we will be acquiring VP, and compare that to our opened reps. In my case, I don’t actually need to buy anything from Shado Pan and August Celestials for weeks and weeks. There’s really no reason for me to stress out about opening these reps.

So I gave a sigh of relief, told myself to stop being so hysterical, and realized I could just do those at my leisure instead of every day. In fact, if Blizzard hadn’t completely fucked up and put 489 ilvl exalted items (the thought still makes me want to cry) on Klaxxi and GL, rep grinders would be able to tone down their post-expansion launch daily play time and return perhaps to the realm of normal people who occasionally go a day or two without logging into WOW.

But. The VP grind makes this very, very difficult.

Suggested solution: Please significantly raise the VP provided from raiding.

We raiders really will all go crazy and all at once if this much time and effort remains tacked onto our weekly activity checklist in addition to raiding, which, by the way, we are really enjoying. Please give us reasonable grinds. Not insane ones.

I wish the VP from raiding + LFR accounted for half my total.

Half. Half is all I ask.

Anyways, I should end with a joke or something, but I’m tired. It’s been a long week and I still have 10 days worth of Klaxxi dailies. You’ll get a more cheerful post when I finally have that fucking exalted reward ring.

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49 Responses to The Valor Point Grind and Dailies

  1. nickstaroba says:

    Amen, sister. Amen.

  2. You’re forgetting that in a few weeks raiding *will* account for over half of your VP- once Heart and Terrace open the Tuesday after next (and their LFR wings open over the following weeks) you can get 25 * 16 = 400VP from N/H and another 270 (90 for the first wing, 45 for each of the other four) from LFR.

    In general a lot of the issues with gearing right now (like the fact that the best gloves I can get come from Conquest points, for example) come from the fact that we’re in this weird period where only 6/16 raid bosses (8/18 if you count world bosses) are available.

    • anafielle says:

      Well, you’re right that the problem will become less severe, but that doesn’t make it any less shitty NOW. The last two weeks have been miserable outside of raid. Last week was just awful with just one wing of LFR open. I did so many dailies I wanted to cry, Monday night. The next two will continue to be miserable. They obviously tuned the VP grind around all raid instances being open and clear, and then put the gating in place. It was pretty thoughtless, unless they wanted it to be like this for a month and a half for raiders.

      And, to add insult to injury, the VP cap will become tons easier for raiders right when it becomes much less relevant due to more gear becoming available.

      If you take the raiding out, consider that the low VP reward from non raiding activities makes capping VP without raiding even more time consuming just as I have laid out. Think of the non raiders, Suzu…. think of the casuals!

      You are right, it’ll be less stupid when more raid instances open. I can’t deny that. but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck now, this month, when I have hated my non raid minutes more and more with every passing day. It could be that I’m the only one, and that everyone else thinks this grind is very reasonable and totally fine. But I am not used to playing to playing this much WOW day after day and it’s leading to some QQ.

      • Balhale says:

        The other issue is this : how many raid groups are really going to full clear 16 bosses every raid week during progression on heroic bosses?

        • anafielle says:

          Yes, that’s a great point. Although I don’t have any idea what my RL’s plans are, I think it is likely that weeks will occur where we don’t full clear. My guess is that we are also unlikely to go back on 10s to finish anything we leave out considering we have preferred not to do that in general. I may be wrong on both points but it seems pretty likely to me.

          I mean, Suzu has a good point. This problem will become less of a hassle in a couple weeks. But I guess that doesn’t stop me from being unhappy right now.

        • Well, going off of the point Ana herself made- once you’re deep enough into heroic progression that you’re letting normal (or even heroic) bosses rot, you’re probably at the point where you don’t need VP gear anymore.

      • Their thinking was probably that reduced valor from raiding wouldn’t be too annoying since in the first few weeks of the expansion raiders would need/want to spend a lot of time doing the other valor-generating activities (dungeons for gear, dailies for rep/charms, scenarios and CMs because they’re shiny and new) anyway. Which is mostly true- in the first couple of weeks you probably capped valor without even thinking about it. It’s only now, when you don’t need any more gear from dungeons, have a month’s worth of lesser charms banked, and have already seen every daily from every faction at least three times (and never want to see that fucking gate in VoEB again,) that shit starts to get painful.

        This will probably never be as big of a problem again, since with the valor upgrade system in 5.1 the amount of valor points you need scales with your raid loot income, as opposed to valor being something you obsessively cap every week when a tier comes out until you buy all the vendor gear and then give zero fucks about for the rest of the tier.

        • anafielle says:

          I totally agree with you on the first part. I guess I (and you) fall into the category of “hardcore enough that we geared in 2 weeks” rather than farmed heroics for 4 or 5, as was probably the intention, and so we found ourselves left in a dead zone between the opening of MSV and the opening of further instances.

          I don’t know about the second part; I hope you are right and the grind isn’t all that hellish once 5.1 rolls around and VP income & needs both change. I can see myself still hating on dailies in 5.1…. might be unfair to blame valor for that though.

          • Daishan says:

            Does anyone know how much VP is needed to upgrade an item?
            Hope it’s not much so we don’t need to cap valor…
            So I don’t come off as too negative I am loving the raids and the few challenge modes I’ve had time to do :D

    • Theck says:

      You just equated LFR with “raiding.” I think that’s taboo on this blog.

    • Kalc says:

      Yes, but that amount of valor would require a full clear of all the raids on normal/heroic every week.

      IDK about your guild, but as long as my guild is progressing content (and once we finish Normal we’ll start almost immediately on heroic progression) we won’t be revisiting the other raids to farm Valor of all things.

      Even if we weren’t progressing, it’s not like you can just hop in and one-shot full raids of current content in 2 hours or less. What you’re proposing with that 400VP a week quote certainly isn’t feasible for me or any of my acquaintances.

      No, I’ll personally be getting no more than the quote Anafielle gave through raiding, and in fact when we start progressing on the later raids, we will have fewer bosses killed each week and so will earn even less valor.

      • The point Ana made in her reply kinda comes into play here- once you’re deep enough into heroic content that you’re letting normal (or even some heroic) bosses rot, you’re probably at the point where you don’t need any more VP gear.

        • Omega says:

          that doesn’t change the fact you won’t always need VP, you have to consider we’ll always need it to upgrade gear too. Blizz wants it to be a relevant currency entire expansion not just beginning of each tier like it’s usually been. Also, i don’t expect rotting bosses because the loot is irrelevent is only reason to rot bosses. The first week heart of fear ships for example. We will probably skip MV because clearing heart of fear is REQUIRED to even unlock the 3rd raid or heart of fear heroic. It also has some pretty tough fights that by no means will be one shots on even normal. i expect both amber shaper and grand empress to take considerable time week 1 as raiders learn the mechanics that didn not see either one on beta. Point being. I highly suspect it’ll be a while before we are clearing 3 zones in a raid week, believe me.

    • Pliers says:

      VP is problematic. It requires a major investment of time and effort past that which is reasonable for raiders. It only stops being an issue when it becomes obsolete. Contrary to what you seem to be trying to say, your response of “once you’re clearing everything, VP stops mattering” is not a counterargument, it’s an endorsement of what Ana is saying.

      If it’s a problem now, and irrelevant later, what arguments are there for not increasing the VP reward from raiding? It won’t change the future irrelevance, but it will make the current situation less abusive. That seems like a positive thing.

      You still have to get your rep from dailies, but you wouldn’t need to do extra sets of dailies you don’t care about reps for, or 5 mans (and eventually LFR) that can’t possibly give you any rewards (other than the VP, obviously).

      You said “their thinking was probably that reduced valor from raiding wouldn’t be too annoying since in the first few weeks of the expansion raiders would need/want to spend a lot of time doing the other valor-generating activities.” That doesn’t counter the “please give more VP” argument whatsoever. It seems like the worst case scenario for increasing VP from raiding is that you’ll cap before you finish doing things. If you’re doing those things anyway, then the VP doesn’t matter!

      What’s worse is that VP will supposedly allow you to upgrade gear in the future. That means VP never stops being relevant. When you’re working your way through the last few bosses on heroic, you’ll still have to spend your time between raids going back and farming 5 mans with loot over 50ilvl under your current gear, or doing dailies that you’ve long since maxxed rep on and purchased the rewards for.

      It’s like a rep bar that won’t ever fill. That’s a goddamn nightmare.

  3. “If you take the raiding out, consider that the low VP reward from non raiding activities makes capping VP without raiding even more time consuming just as I have laid out. Think of the non raiders, Suzu…. think of the casuals!”

    Big powerful rewards from time investment in the quest storylines seems to make the VP rep gear exactly what non-raiding players have wanted for ages, tangible gear rewards from their play style.

    • anafielle says:

      Yes, I think it’s amazing. I like that VP comes from a wide variety of activities, and the vision for VP gear is to provide a good raiding alternative. This is a plus, in case that wasn’t clear.

      The point I was making was the time investment required to cap that VP is also very large and comes in small, daily-allotted increments for non raiders. While this is the design goal, I think the rewards could stand to be retuned for everyone.

  4. Daishan says:

    Nice read again :)

    Your soooo not alone, Blizz badly screwed up with the time spent vs rewards from vp.
    My guild is only casual ish (1/6 hm Feng hm on Sun with any luck). Non of us are enjoying the grind for rep and VP but we all know that an extra bit of gear on every person in the raid just has such a big impact on what bosses we can kill.

    Another problem I’m having is in LFR I need to be tank on half the bosses to have a chance at the items with “tanky” stats on, then I need to que again as ret for several other bosses so I have a chance at getting the haste/mast or haste/hit items, all that meaning I’ve spent something like 4 hours in LFR and I shudder to think how long queing for it -.-

    • anafielle says:

      Thank you very much :) I always worry that all I do is QQ and it is nice to hear that people enjoy reading it.

      1/6 HM isn’t all that casual, sounds like you are doing well there :P GL on Feng!!

      I totally hear ya on the LFR stuff. I fortunately am not mainspec tank anymore, but my offspec is our third tank so I have a need for pretty much all the things ever. I just don’t know if there is a good solution for blizz here because it’s bad when you receive a piece of gear you don’t want, but it’s also bad when tank / DPS overlap this much and you end up missing out on your BIS pieces because of your spec. It just seems like LFR gear is going to suck no matter what they do. =/

      • Daishan says:

        Cheers having a little trouble getting everyone on line this week nut should go down.

        The only idea I had was a box like the extra roll one which lets you choose which one of your specs your rolling for. Then LFR wont have me queing up for Kings and Elegon as tank then dropping group to que as ret for WoE, would also mean there’d be a good tank for WoE and not a dodgy ret…

  5. I think the questionable premise is right there in the first point “We need to cap each week”. You’ve cleared ALL available raid content. Why do you feel the need to cap each and every week. In the days before Valor/Emblems/Badges, we ran bosses and prayed to whatever deities we entrusted that ‘our’ loot would drop, and if it didn’t, we were just stuck until the reset.

    I think a similiar situation could keep raiders sane now. Get what Valor you can and stay sane. Get as much as you can. You’ve already proven you’ve got the gear to clear the content. You’ve done it. Then just sit back and relax and enjoy your time in game once more.

    • anafielle says:

      I actually explained this. “Valor Point gear is extremely relevant, with MSV missing quite a few slots of gear for most of us.”

      MSV is missing shoulders, belt, both rings, and a trinket right now. Those are slots that will either be filled with VP gear or will remain 463 until the next raid instance opens. Leaving them at 463 when there are good upgrades with an ilvl boost all the way up to 489 available — absolutely not an option considering how crazy enrage timers are. Well, I mean, the other option is not to raid, but that wouldn’t really be fun for me.

      PS: Haven’t done all my target content yet. We’re only 2/6H! The third boss is what we are working on now. :D

    • Theck says:

      She hasn’t cleared ALL available raid content until it’s dead on hard mode. Valor gear is still very relevant for heroic progression.

  6. Doxa says:

    Ana, I think the main problem here is not the VP cap but that Blizzard has gone back to a more BC way of gearing.

    I think you’re stuck in a “last two expansions” mindset and you need to reset to BC-like gearing.

    For the last 2 expansions Valor has been one of the main ways we’ve geared up. It wasn’t like that in BC and it isn’t like that now. Badges of Justice (back in BC) were means of gear supplementing; not the main way to gear up. That’s true now.

    For all the VP gear you can get there are almost always raid-drop alternatives. Raiding is the main way you get gear now (as it was in BC). Valor is a way to supplement that or to pick up a piece that just never dropped in a raid.

    • Pliers says:

      This is nothing like BC.

    • Daishan says:

      I don’t think any of us are suggesting Valor is the main way to gear up.
      Even if MV had items for ever single slot on the loot tables, we still need to have those items drop.
      Any raid team half serious about progress will get a very noticeable advantage from each person having 2-3 extra epics, I’ve no maths to back this up but i’d imagine it must add an extra 2-5% to a raids dps.
      Plus when Blizz bring in the upgrading of gear with Valor next patch even those that have been lucky and have all the raid drops they wanted will need Valor to upgrade those heroic items.

  7. I don’t mind the VP gains right now, even if the VP to LFR/LFD ratio is crap right now, what I have a problem with is the rep tied VP spending, with nothing but dailies to gain rep. Right now, anyone who is even semi-serious about raiding is forcing themselves to do dailies to get revered to spend the VP they have earned.
    Now Rep tied vendors I do not have a problem with, no alternative ways to gain rep with said vendors is what I do have an issue with, as I refuse to do something that I’m forced to do. Yes, you can say that no one is forced to do the dailies, but if you want that edge with progression, then yes you are. You ARE forced to do content that, a) wasn’t designed with raiders in mind, and b) you may not even like.
    Now, I’m sure that there is a Blue post somewhere that stated they don’t want to force players to do stuff they don’t like for endgame, but that is what is happening right now.

    • anafielle says:

      Ehhh, the rep grind is over or almost over for most of us. Setting aside the exalted items, which are fucking stupid, it’s quite possible to be revered with everyone right now. I was revered with Klaxxi and GL last week and I would be revered with SP and AC right now, except I knew I didn’t need to be for weeks, so I stopped doing them.

      I am less unhappy about the rep grind, which ends, and more unhappy about the VP grind, which doesn’t.

      • While the VP grind is annoying, the rep grind I refuse to do. I have done a total of maybe 50-60 daily quests since TBC launched. I just cant stand them, I HATE gathering/killing quests. I LOVE game-within-a-game type quests, such as the plants vs zombie questline. Those are the type of quests that should be dailies, while not every single one, but at least 1 or 2 of them a day.

        One more thing, for most PROGRESSION raiders the rep grind is almost over, there are several people in my guild, extremely laid back mostly-casual, semi-hardcore/progression as it is, who had only hit 90 in the last week or so, or spent time leveling alts to 90 to have tank/heal backups available, so their grind is just starting.
        It’s already burning some of my guild mates out, several of them only log on to do the daily heroic, scenario, and LFR, or to see if a raid schedule has been nailed down yet.

        • anafielle says:

          Very true. I made that mistake where I assume that my sample is representative and it is not. My “most of us” meant “most of the people I raid with” and we definitely don’t play the game like most normal people. And it’s burning us out too. =/

  8. I’d mentioned this exact thing on the forums a couple of times in the beta, apparently to deaf ears.

    I decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation, and abandoned the notion of raiding in Pandaria completely. It’s a GAME, not my JOB, and I refuse to let that change.

    • anafielle says:

      Understandable. I love the raiding so much though. :(

      • I know that feeling. :(

        I miss it terribly, but as a full time college student, with a part time job, a boyfriend, and lots of younger family members to tend to, there are literally not enough hours in a day.

        The almost ironic thing being that Blizzard is unlikely to see it as a problem worth addressing, because subs are up and legions of people are getting more VP than they ever did before. Sure, they’re not capping, but they weren’t capping in Cataclysm, either, so those players think things are now MORE accessible because their playstyle got buffed, while everybody else got nerfed.

  9. Paul says:

    How are you going to spend that VP? You’ll need rep. And what happens when you do masses of daily quests? You get lots of VP.

    It is quite possible to cap weekly VP doing rep dailies at this point.

    • anafielle says:

      I actually address this in detail at the end of my post. A lot of us are trying to chill out on dailies and only do the necessary ones, and the devs are telling us it’s not “required”… however that’s impossible with this VP grind.

      For example, I already have Klaxxi at revered and GL, and I have absolutely no need for AC or SP at revered right now. I’m still doing Klaxxi to get to exalted… so, 8 dailies x 7 days = 45 dailies. That is NOWHERE NEAR the 134 needed to cap each week.

      But let’s take your point as if it was serious and imagine that we all keep doing ALL the rep dailies because we NEED them. Right?

      So, if you were me, and doing Klaxxi and AC and GL every single day, you’ll hit 134 dailies in a week PROVIDED YOU MISS NO DAYS. You know, tons of fun. And what happens after that rep grind will cease after, oh, 10 days? No more need for rep? How are you going to cap your VP?

      The rep grind to gear is totally separate from the VP problem. First, a reasonable rep grind doesn’t give you near as much VP as you need, and second, the rep grind ENDS. Then what do you do?

      You cry. And keep doing dailies. Or any of the other very bad options I laid out.

  10. Passionario says:

    The intended way for the hardcore to max out their VP is to chain-run challenge modes.

  11. Arneus says:

    I really do understand your point. But it is based on the premise that you must maximise every possible option to progress as fast as possible in the game. As so many Pandaren say “slow down”. I’m not saying you shouldn’t enjoy the game at whichever speed you want, but it is your choice to go this fast. You are making this hard on yourself.
    But I also really think this is transitory. As the raids open up you will access more slots from raid drops and you won’t need or want the VP gear anyway. This is a momentary aberation.
    Meanwhile, for folks like me who are still waiting for their guild to get raid ready, it’s possible to get some VP gear doing other things. I think that is the real purpose of VP gear, real raiders will rarely keep VP gear for more than a couple of weeks.
    As an aside, while you may not enjoy scenarios I think you’ll find they are your best VP value for time. In 10-15 minutes (and I bet you can go faster :)) you get 15 VP, some dailies are faster but many are slower.

    • Progression Raiding, by its very definition, demands the pursuit of the fastest acquisition of gear that is humanly possible to attain. That is the commitment you make when you join a progression raiding team. Blizzard knows that, but they subjected us to this terrible system anyway.

      Since, as you say, your team isn’t even raid ready yet, I think it’s a safe assumption that your guild doesn’t run progression raiding. Which is fine, really, if that’s what you want to do. But why should the support for one type of player, come at the cost of inflicting additional suffering upon another?

      Answer: it shouldn’t. Never, ever, under any circumstances. But in MoP, it has.

      It’s something that can be hard to grasp if you’re not a progression raider. The people on this team with you are more than friends, they’re family. Though I no longer have the time for it myself, I fondly remember the get togethers at blizzcon, the long hours spent drilling rotations, the painful nights where no progress was made, and the triumphant joy of downing something well ahead of the curve. To not give it your all, to push for even the tiniest of advantages, is to let down the other people on your team who ARE pushing that hard. And nobody likes to feel like they’ve let down their family.

      • Arneus says:

        I get progression raiding is the deal here. But the problem is for this brief window of time in order to progress you have to do something unpleasant. In a month it will not be an issue. One could argue that Blizz has simply set you a different challenge. One that you do not find to be fun. Is it true that all progression raiders hate this?

        As for family – you seem to be assuming that my guild is any less close than your progression guild, an unwise assumption.

        You also know very well the progression raiders are the extreme minority in WoW hence it would be unreasonable for Blizz to fix a problem that only affects the extreme end of progression raiders and only affects them for a short period of time.

        I really do understand the OPs feelings here and I’m not trying to dismiss them. Equally perhaps you should not dismiss my ability to “grasp” the issue.

        • Pliers says:

          Progression raiders may be the minority, but we are the lifeblood of the game. You can’t cater to the most hardcore of your playbase, but you can’t ignore or abuse them either.

    • anafielle says:

      Geez my commenters… sorry about the rest and their passion. They have a tendency to leap in. I appreciate your comment :)

      I respectfully don’t agree though that the valor cap should be this difficult.

      You seem to be saying something along the lines of, “You chose to do this, now you’re complaining about it,” which is a valid point I guess. :) However, I’m saying something a bit different: “I’ve ALWAYS done this, and now it’s 10x harder than its ever been before.” It’s a different argument. I’m not saying raiders shouldn’t work. I’m saying that the grind is exponentially, exponentially harder than before, and it’s even harder if you are already raiding than (sorry) if you are still prepping. I have a feeling you aren’t having a lot of trouble capping because you’re still running heroics and such. The VP cap is going to feel a lot further away when your raid team gets into raids, let me tell you.

      Basically your argument seems to be, “if it sucks so much, don’t do it!” – but that means ceasing to do something I’ve done for months/years to raid prep. There is nothing fun in a game about stopping a task that you’ve done and depended on for a long, long time because that task suddenly got 10x grindier.

      You also underestimate how futureproof that VP gear is. MSV is missing 4-5 slots for most raiders, so there are holes for VP to fill right there. Considering how massively hard HC Garajal is – we hope to down him this week – there are only two bosses that will quickly drop 502 gear, meaning the VP is very competitive to the normal stuff and certainly better where it’s better itemized. It’s quite important to raiders especially right now.

      Hopefully I didn’t butcher your point. Thanks for the thoughts!

      • anafielle says:

        O also, thanks for letting me know about scenarios. I actually had no idea they were so short. Who cares if they’re easy then! I’ll try running the daily for VPs!

      • Arneus says:

        No worries about your passionate commentors. I really do understand their pain, as an achievement junkie I’ve felt similar pain over the years.

        I’ll take your word that VP gear is better than I thought. I was going by by previous experience where any VP gear I bought was quickly swapped out for raid gear (LFR and normal mode only of course).

        I really didn’t want to come across as saying “suck it up” and I’m sorry for that. I think Blizz know that progression raiders have done this in the past and are trying to discourage it. I’m guessing that they don’t feel VP gear should be on the gear path for progression raiders and hence didn’t design the VP path for raiders at all.

        If I was going to suggest any solution at all I’d probably err on the side of adding more gear to the raids rather than giving more VP out in raids. But I’m not a designer.

        You have my sympathy. I’d like to see if the problem persists after the next raid is opened up. Meanwhile hopefully you’ll get enough from scenarios to have more fun :).

  12. Sol says:

    You missed that you can get 50VP a day from cooking, organising crops and visiting your friends with 5 of their favourite food. I also always check for the race daily as that is extra VP if you have enough rep for it to have a chance to be there. A few scenarios are cost effective, and if you organise them with your guild as groups put some cash back in the bank via guild challenges. I do find the cooking a good topup. I don’t do everything but it saves me a few dailies a week.

    • anafielle says:

      5 per day of their favorite food is very expensive, but you are right that that is a possibility! I did not know that as much as 50 VP came from it all though– I am indeed tending each day.

      You and others have suggested scenarios… I’ll have to look into them!

  13. Nikachelle says:

    This breakdown is massively helpful. Thank you for doing all the work… I’ve linked to it on my guild’s site for my raiders to peruse!

  14. Passionario says:

    A hotfix bumped VP gains for heroics, scenarios and challenge modes by 33%.

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