Mists of Farm-daria

I realized that Sacred Duty has been without an update for a very long time. I have nothing really of note to report, but I’ll go ahead and lay down some thoughts about MOP now that we’re a few weeks in.

Things I want to do with my time:

  • Raid my nice, limited 12 hours a week.
  • Tank challenge modes!!
  • Cloud Serpent dailies

Things I actually have to do with my time:

  • Golden Lotus dailies (thank god, I’m done)
  • Klaxxi dailies (thank god, I’m done)
  • Shado Pan dailies
  • August Celestial dailies (2 locations, since it’s bugged)
  • Tiller dailies
  • Galleon spawns, as many as possible (he’s handing off loot to everyone on every kill these days).
  • Sha of Anger once a week
  • LFR once a week
  • Spend 2 hours wandering around Jade Forest trying to fish up Giant Mantis Shrimp for my food
  • Give up, buy Mantis shrimp at 20g / pop
  • Fuck farming Mushan, buying that at 15g / pop as well
  • Buy herbs, lots and lots of herbs, for flasks, pots, and Darkmoon cards
  • Use 2x Scribe cooldowns
  • Use 1x Alchemist Living Steel cooldown


Mists of Pandaria is driving me a little bit crazy.

I’ve never, ever had to do this much out of raid work. My guild is feeling it too, since we have always historically been on that line between “low time investment” and “high performance.” There is nothing low about the time investment that raiding in a serious manner requires right now. Absolutely nothing. When I’m spending as much time raid-prepping as I am raiding, something is seriously fucking wrong.

There is an appropriate amount of farming that I feel I should do because I am a pretty hardcore raider in a pretty seriousface guild– yes, I should make sacrifices. But this is well above the level of what I feel is appropriate. I thought the devs had decided that this much farming for raid wasn’t fun? I thought that they’ve been moving away from that since Vanilla? I could find a blue post or two, but I’m just too tired from farming for Shrimp well into the night last night to put forth the effort.

I’ve a couple raiders in my guild who really did raid back in Vanilla and I’m told this is far and away the most grindy expansion launch they’ve ever seen.

I’m sure it’ll chill out as soon as I finish my rep dailies, but for now it’s still quite a bit of work.

“What the FUCK is this shitty food?!”

Oh, let’s get into the food argument again!

300 stat food is a nonzero DPS contribution. It’s just as simple as that. If you consider 625 rating across the raid being estimated about 2000 raid DPS, that’s 1-2 million worth of damage. Sure, less than 1% of a current boss health pool, but all you have to do is sit down and eat the food to get it. Yes, it’s well within your mistake range. Yes, it’s within the margin of error on sims. Yes, a breath of hesitation on one ability will make the same difference. I don’t care. It’s a (tiny, tiny) flat increase that you gain by sitting down and clicking some shit in your bags, and that’s all that matters.

My favorite argument against the food was the No True Scotsman argument at the end of this blog post. It argues that hardcore raiders should prioritize some, chosen stat increases and discard some others (instead of, you know, going for all of them), which is crazy to me. It also, hilariously, compares 275 vs 300 food to the choice between boot enchants – stats or runspeed. Because, you know, trading 25 rating for ZERO is the same as trading rating for a runspeed increase. The best is the end, with a couple condescending platitudes about how real raiders optimize. Here’s my favorite: “To put it bluntly: posturing about how you’re the kind of player who needs to farm this food because you pursue every possible avenue of optimization does not impress anybody.  It makes you look clueless.”


You know, I’m happy to keep on being clueless with my little band of 2/6 25M heroic raiders. We are just too stupid to understand how optimization works.

Actual Good arguments against the food include:

  • “The gain is so minuscule that it’s not worth the incredibly huge time/money investment”
  • “It’s not fun”
  • “All our raiders will go insane if we keep using it.”

This is probably the road my guild will go down soon.

I agree that the effort it requires is not, anywhere near, worth the output. We are in the end a low-hour guild with a limit to the time most of us can or want to invest in WOW. We’re still using it, only on the very, very serious pulls. I’m fairly certain that if the mats required don’t change, we’ll start using it less and less. The reward may not be worth the investment – except on tight enrage timers.

But “the gain isn’t worth the cost because we will go crazy” is definitely a different argument from “Using the food is wrong, you’re bad to use it and you should feel bad.”


I don’t hate all farming. Really. I really like the Tillers. I secretly love my Spirits of Harmony farm! I also have a burning desire to have a Cloud Serpent, not for the basic ones but because the raid drop mounts are jawdroppingly beautiful. One day I will update that twitter icon of mine…

However. Fuck the rest. Seriously. Fuck them. I was never happier than the day that I realized I didn’t have to do those goddamn Klaxxi quests anymore because the rewards were all at Revered. Thank god. I was happier on that day than on the day I finished off Golden Lotus. Those were more bearable than the Kill 200 Bugs quest in the Slow Ass Mount That Kills Nothing in One Hit.

I’m trying to determine which I hate more: Flying around for 2 hours looking for Shrimp spawns to fish up mats for my food, or Klaxxi dailies. I’m thinking I hate Klaxxi more.

Please feel free to comment with your least favorite set of dailies to convince me there are worse ones in the game.

Valor Points

So…. dailies for valor points. Worst idea ever or worst idea ever?

Dungeons provide very little VP. Raids provide very little VP. LFR provides (in some hilarious twist of math) more VP currently than do raids. So there is no possible way that any raider will skip LFR, even if we didn’t need the gear out of it (and we do).

I’m capping my VP now because I have to do all these dailies for raid. But one day, I’ll have  finished all my raid-relevant reps and I’ll find myself uncapped with 50 dailies to do. I can’t imagine being less excited about anything.

Challenge Modes

I’d love to tank some. Someday. When I have time.

The Raids: Mogushan Vaults is Awesome

Fortunately the raids are so very amazing that they make up for all this farming.

MSV is fabulous. I honestly can’t remember the last instance I loved so much. I’m mentally comparing it to T11 while telling myself that I’ve only seen 3 heroic modes so far with some work on #3, and I suppose I should reserve judgement until I’ve seen more. But the whole place is just so well designed– even the normal modes were beautiful, compelling and pretty damn challenging in 463 gear.

Something Wicked has been powering through MSV, downing all 6 bosses on Normal in Week 1 (with a big time sacrifice to make it happen!) and then getting both Stone Guard Heroic and Feng Heroic to our great happiness in Week 2. The Feng kill was US 38 and World top 100, and I was just about floored. It’s not like the kill was a surprise, we worked damn hard on both bosses in our usual efficient manner and the kill was clean, but I was really tickled pink to see our hard work pay off. Feng is also a very straightforward boss, and if you pull each phase with the intention of working on them and learning them, putting all the pieces together then seems quite easy. Well-designed.

I love bosses with a lot of pieces that just fall into place once you’ve learned them all. This describes a large part of MSV, and the whole instance has me quite happy. I feel as though Blizz’s encounter designers have really outdone themselves.

We needed MSV.

We really, really did. The spring and summer were really scary for all guilds, I think. The last nine months were just… so bad, so terribly bad, from February until September, a lull where all we had to do was a raid instance that was absolutely atrocious at launch and just got worse and worse as it was buffed more and more. But we survived, and so did many other raiding teams, waiting anxiously for Blizzard to convince us that we’ve a reason to raid. Finally they have given us a raid instance that feels worthy of our time, and I couldn’t be happier.

I love raiding again, and that’s not something I’ve really felt since Firelands.

I just hope at some point all this daily stuff will calm down so I can focus on the stuff I really want to do.

This entry was posted in From Ana's Inbox, Raiding. Bookmark the permalink.

55 Responses to Mists of Farm-daria

  1. Leodar says:

    Can’t comment on everything here since my guild won’t start raiding until this week or next, but I had a long discussion about valor points that I think is pertinent to your point.

    I think the basic concept of “get valor through whatever method” is solid, and not the worst idea ever :) I think the tuning is off. I don’t want to have to do a shit ton of dailies to cap my valor. I don’t want to be compelled to run LFR for VPs either. I would like it if I could combine the heroics, challenge modes, and scenarios to get the VP I want, but I can’t, the collection rate is just a bit too slow. All in all, I think its an issue of “time spent = VP gained” that feels off.

    While I don’t share your feelings on Firelands, I’m really excited to see you connect MSV to T11 in your mind. I loved that tier, and will be thrilled is MSV elicits those memories.

    Well written, and thanks for the post.

    • anafielle says:

      Oh, I liked Firelands. (see: my twitter icon!) It was Dragon Soul that was the crappy instance we sat in for a year. Maybe I typo’d, I have to check.

      I think you are probably right that “cap Valor however you want!” is a great idea. I wish it worked like that! My daily-enjoying friends could do dailies and then I could do something else (you know, like raid) to cap mine. Unfortunately right now the way it’s tuned is, just like you said, “cap valor by making sure you do EVERYTHING.” You are spot on that the time spent vs gain is off.

      I think that is a problem with a great deal of different MOP things to be honest.

      Thanks for the comment 😀

      • Leodar says:

        No, I understand you liked Firelands, I just despised it :) I wasn’t compelled or impressed with any of the fights with the exception of Alysrazor. It also contains the single worst encounter that I have ever raided – Lord Rhyolith.

        I’m encouraged this expansion because I feel like there are good ideas that need tuning, which is quite an accomplishment considering how awful I thought Cataclysm was.

        Sorry that my earlier comment confused you.

        • anafielle says:

          I see I see! We can be united in our hatred of some Cataclysm raid instance then :) I totally agree with you about Rhyolith after all! He was awful! Maybe I just forgive firelands all because of the pretty bird mount. I’m a sucker for shiny things.

          This expac is like a whole new game for raiding. It’s pretty awesome, I hope their encounter design team feels real proud of themselves. These fights are really new and fresh.

  2. Why do you need VP and VP gear if your group is already 2/6 25m Hard Modes?

    • anafielle says:

      Hmm. A ton of reasons.

      1) Valor point gear is 489 ilvl. It is the same as normal mode MSV.

      2) MSV is missing a lot of pieces. For example, in ret, I get no rings (at all!!), no shoulders, no belt and only one trinket. Definitely need VP to fill in those blanks before the next raid opens.

      3) Eventually, I’ll be raid geared, but right now– this week — I’m still in half 463 gear. So is most of the raid. The third heroic mode has a DPS check so hard that most guilds are dropping to 4 healers to meet it even though the healing is crazy. We need every single bit of stat that we can get our hands on.

      That is always true though, it’s not about the best in slot set– it’s about “what are the best pieces I can have THIS WEEK to kill the boss?” We will “need” VP for a long time. I envision 4 or 5 more pieces that will be upgrades at the time I have access to them, so I will buy them, even if something drops “later”. Gotta kill those bosses to get access to the loot after all.

      4) Oh, and I maintain two raid ready specs since I’m the third tank and I’ve a responsibility to put VP towards that set too.

      • Jackinthegreen says:

        Blizz has also hinted at us being able to upgrade gear via VP, which means capping and choosing which piece to upgrade is going to continue to be a big thing for raiders.

  3. Esoth says:

    Your Valor Point argument needs to also address the change in paradigm of what getting VP actually means. If raids gave pitiful VP while dailies gave plentiful VP this wouldn’t necessarily be a problem unless VP gear were actually a worthwhile investment for raid gear. This was alleviated somewhat by tier gear but there are still 489 items in there and I’m not sure what they are doing with upgrading gear with VP yet.

    I get what they are trying to do – make it so that you can do the raid for the week and still have plenty of things to do if you want to. The problem is that they are having trouble walking the line between giving you things to do outside of raid if you want to put the time in, and giving you things to do that provide a tangible benefit in those raids.

    Here’s what I would have done if it were up to me. Dailies don’t give any VP but they do give rep. All “VP” gear is tied to some rep vendor as well. The 489 raid viable gear could then be purchased in one of two ways: getting to honored/revered with the appropriate faction and a nominal amount of gold, or with VP. Dailies and VP could be tuned such that it took roughly the same amount of days to do either. That way if you did your raid supplemented with heroic dungeons you could be done for the week, or if you still wanted to play you could work on a rep for the exalted mounts or other toys.

    To be honest though, I really just don’t care that much. Having a ton of things to work on at once to be the best my character can is intense, which I kind of like. For a limited amount of time that is – but this is all likely to be a limited amount of time. Flask, potion, and enchanting mats have already dropped to super cheap levels. Food will take longer, but it will drop. Reps will be finished and there will be less things to do later in the tier, and no subsequent tiers this xpac will ever be as intense. But to some extent this is just the requirement of what it’s always meant to be hardcore, and I like the early xpac rush.

  4. But can’t you get VP from doing challenge modes? >.>

  5. Esoth says:

    Also should clarify this: “Something Wicked has been powering through MSV, downing all 6 bosses on Normal in Week 1 (with a big time sacrifice to make it happen!)” the sacrifice was an extra hour of “time”, not a “big-time” sacrifice, like dropping to 10 😉

    • anafielle says:

      Lol. I’m not talking about you. It was a huge, huge sacrifice for me. It was probably the most problematic sacrifice I’ve ever made for raiding. It was worth it, but it was not as simple as just showing up. I am sure there are other people who made sacrifices too. We’re a 12 hour guild. It’s not like it was as easy as shrugging and logging on to get there on Monday.

  6. Esoth says:

    I want to comment on some of your required activities that I don’t think are really required:
    *Tiller dailies – not a requirement. It’s an efficient use of time for raid prep, but not strictly a time requirement.
    * LFR once a week – this is required, but it’s like 30min a week :p
    *Give up, buy Mantis shrimp at 20g / pop – anything you can throw money at is not a requirement, and like I mentioned earlier, prices will plummet in a month or so
    *Fuck farming Mushan, buying that at 15g / pop as well – see above
    *Use 2x Scribe cooldowns – this and the next one are not required at all, just fun money making activities. Can easily forgo them
    *Use 1x Alchemist Living Steel cooldown

    • anafielle says:

      All of those things are money makers, and if you were looking at your main like I did yesterday and saw 6k gold, when you spent 3k on flasks last week…. you would feel the same.

      There’s nothing quite as required as having the money to keep raiding.

      • Theck says:

        Wait, you have to provide your own flasks?

        Our guild provides flasks/feasts. Nothing like having a guild run by a mufti-millionaire auction house baron.

        • Celeggur says:

          And that is the problem I think. I think you are very lucky Theck. Just joined a new guild, although my old one worked in a similar way. We either need to supply our own raiding mats (flasks, food etc), to donate to the GB some someone can make them for the guild.

          Thus a lot of the things above that Esoth noted are manditory. Unless the time spent griding for gold would be easier I guess.
          The Tillers – Being able to get at least 1 spirit of harmony a day makes getting flasks so much easier. The vegitables are also a requirement to make the food.
          Fishing just makes it cheaper. (Also for reference Mantis Shrimp I believe spawn on all oceans. I know I found most of mine of the coast of Dread Wastes).

          Scribe CD’s are also a must if you want to get your Darkmoon card without paying for it. Think the cheapest on my realm is about 60k (Not including the tanking one). If other clases are like me. That is BiS for a long time. I am a hunter btw.
          Alchemy is similar. Those bars will be used to make the 496 crafting drops. So will really help to get a stock on them now.

  7. Ana, what would recommend a freshly dinged 90 Tankadin prioritize? Run heroics like mad? Klaxxi rep? Tillers? I already have my JC and mining at max. We aren’t anywhere close to you guys progression wise, but I’d like to be ready as fast as I can.

    • anafielle says:

      I would:

      – Make sure you have a look at the JP gear on vendors (it’s not rep linked!) and purchase what you’d like.
      – Do Klaxxi and Golden Lotus every day, well, “every day” that you reasonably can.
      – Run heroics for gear.

      I think these things would probably get you started very well. You’ll pick up the Klaxxi BS patterns (which are cool) at Revered, and GL are quite important and open more dailies, which you can choose to do or not do as you prefer.

      I personally find Tillers to be the least annoying and the most preparation-useful of the dailies. Esoth is correct to point out at me that they are not required, but what you gain from them is very, very nice. You can grow a huge number of veggies that you can sell to idiots like me who use the 300 stat food for ridiculous amounts of gold. Or since you’re a BS, after a week or two of dailies you can start “growing” spirits of harmony, and then manufacture your gear, which is what I’ve been doing. It’s really nice and makes your life more convenient. However, they’re not all that necessary.

  8. Zaephod says:

    Ana, for your sanity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkt90saa7l0

    That’s Lore’s video on the pacing for your rep grinds and I think it’ll help you. Essentially, you simply need to get one rep to revered every five weeks and you’ll keep pace with the valor cap. That Lore guy’s a smart ‘n’.

    • anafielle says:

      Right, but I couldn’t really do that because my first VP purchases had to be Klaxxi and GL rep. I can probably get away with chilling out now because I have more to buy from both before I start purchasing VP rewards at AC and SP, but…. hmm.

      I’ll watch the video, thanks :)

  9. Dan Paladin says:

    I rarely disagree with the stuff written on this site, but the idea that 300 stat food is really a statistically significant increase over 275 food at these item levels than stat food is simply silly. Yes, min/maxing is important and should be done. But at what point do we stop?

    1) Is your expertise and hit *truly* as close to 7.5% without going over as they could be?
    2) Do your DK, Warrior and Druid tanks all go night elf because the 2% dodge unaffected by DR is clearly better than any other racial, point for point? Is everyone taking advantage of racials to ensure they pick the best one? Did everyone who could switch to Pandaren do so to take advantage of the 300 int/str/agi bonus on food, which should min/max better than the other alliance racials for most?
    3) Is everyone in you group using LW as a profession because it grants 10 more stats than the other professions? Are you a LW? If not, that is 10 Strength down the drain.

    These are just a few examples out of many.

    As a raid leader, I know how crazy I get when people aren’t enchanted or hit capped or whatever. Yes, little things add up. But unless I was literally going for world firsts or something similar, I would never put my raid group through the hellish grind of getting the 300 stat food.

    An equally important point in my opinion: the amount of stress people go through from having to farm for these measly 25 stat points would surely cancel out any benefit they attain.

    Still love the blog! :p

    • anafielle says:

      The problem with talking about the stat food is that every single one of us hates that it’s in the game but we all disagree about why.

      I’ll try to explain. In terms of whether it’s statistically significant: Would you be OK with one of your raiders showing up with an empty gem socket? Would you consider that OK because it was such a minor amount of rating with reference to the total rating across the raid? That is 625 rating. It is equally insignificant when taken with reference to the whole raid but it is still there, and it’s as easy as filling the gem socket (or clicking the food).

      As for my raid, our DK MT is a night elf, and our raiders are going Pandaren in droves. But your point is well taken, we aren’t all switching to LW temporarily. It is arguably easier to just click food in your bag though, than to powerlevel a profession.

      I’m not saying that 625 rating will get us a kill. In fact, I am pretty certain it will not. That does not stop me from wanting to use the food or thinking that I should want to use it. It’s food. It’s there! I want it! IT’S MORE RATING!

      That attitude is how I enjoy playing. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.

      I do agree that the completely minor increase this food provides is really not worth the effort at all. My raid will probably move that direction, because we aren’t interested in going crazy. I tried to make this point (although it probably wasn’t clear since I had a lot more fun ranting about how stupid Hamlet’s condescending post was)…. the effort/reward ratio is completely fucked up with this food.

      But the fact that it’s in the game makes it clear that HM raiders SHOULD WANT it. I think we should, and I think food is a different deal than races or professions. It’s a consumable. It’s basically like reforging really precisely (except with a much higher overhead in either time or money), and that is certainly something we do. I remember exchanging emails with my old co-ret paladin about how he squeezed 10 more rating out of his gear and was very happy about it. We do that!

      I want to want this food. I think we should want it! I think we should be using it, and it sucks that it’s not worthwhile to use at all.

      Anyways, I wouldn’t want to argue that anyone else should use the 300 food. No way, please don’t use it, hopefully my post didn’t sound like I was recommending it to anyone.

      I do not think we are wrong to use it though. I didn’t like the tone of how wrong I personally was told I was being by that blog post– that was the purpose of that section.

      In other words, there are good reasons to use it and good reasons not to. At least, that’s how I feel about it. I dislike being told it’s categorically wrong or right.

    • Moshne says:

      Just a point on semantics. It is absolutely statistically significant. This is separate and apart from the issue of whether it is an interesting increase. Statistical significance merely cares about whether you would notice the difference via something other than sampling chance.

      I wouldn’t normally chime in on a matter of word usage, but when we are talking theorycrafting, correct usage and understanding of the term matters.

      • Bananarchy says:

        While true in the abstract, reality is much messier. You could do a number of runs of the same group doing the same content with the same strat and varying only the food and I suspect you’d find 275 food performances above 300 and vice versa. Obviously none of us has access to this data from which to calculate an actual value for p to see if it is the magical 0.5, or 0.01 or 1.5 or anything else.

    • Pliers says:

      1) My expertise and hit ARE as close to 7.5% as I can get them. If it is under, it is because I’d lose a sizable amount of other stats to do so. If they are over, it’s because it was the only way to get near the cap. It’s not worth trading hundreds of your top stat between haste/crit/mastery for your bottom one just to drop .02% extra hit. The fact that some people don’t reforge for as close to perfection as possible is actually very surprising to me. I would have expected that even in casual guilds.

      2) I disagree with your arguing about racials, both in principle and in fact. There are benefits to different racials. Every Man for Himself won’t show on a spreadsheet, but it definitely has its uses. Also, nitpicking point, but the NE racial isn’t 2% dodge, due to diminishing returns.

      More importantly, there’s a major difference between expecting people to min/max their chars in game and forced paid race changes.

      3) Aside from being impractical, if everyone was a LW, who would cut your gems, craft your gear, or do your enchants? How would you make money to pay for all of the other things you need gold for when every single one of your raiders is undercutting each other? How would you manage to get the mats for 30 people to powerlevel a profession immediately after a change to any of the other professions? Admittedly, I see your point here, and it’s a valid one, but not one I agree with.

      25 stats on each person sounds minimal, but it’s a dps loss equivalent to your top dps purposely leaving their ring slot empty. People talk about 1% wipes like they never happen. That’s absurd, they happen all the time. I’ve had multiple bosses survive to another day or raid week after getting under 1%. Then there are the times where you may have skipped an extra add spawn, or phased the boss before someone died. You can’t rationally argue that the difference is tiny, therefore it isn’t valuable.

      My biggest issue with the 300 stat food isn’t that we have to farm it. It’s that it exists. We’ve been using feasts for years. Why the backwards slide? If 300 food is intended to be used, then it should have a reasonable time requirement to be gathered. If it isn’t intended to be used, it shouldn’t exist. Either way, it’s a problematic item, and needs to be changed or removed.

      • Theck says:

        Not to nitpick, but are you sure the NE racial is affected by DR? I don’t think I’ve ever tested it specifically, as it’s not applicable to paladins, but a race-based bonus is the type of thing that generally wouldn’t be affected by DR.

        • Dan Paladin says:

          You are right Theck. The NE racial is not affected by DR. My point stands that from a min/max perspective, which is the point we are discussing here.

          In regards to Pliers’ point that the reason everyone is not switching to LW is because it is not practical, I think he is making my own argument for me. There are alts, and people are given 2 primary professions, not one. No one is arguing that 275 stat points is better than 300. That would be silly. By arguing that we aren’t all going LW because it would be too hard to powerlevel, etc. you are basically making my point about the stat food. It is hard to get the 300 stat food, to the point (in my humble opinion) that it is not worth the increase.

          What if the individual food gave 276 stat points instead of 300? Would we agree it is not worth it then? What about 280? All I am saying is that the 25 stat difference does not go beyond that point, for me, where I would say farming it is worth it. If it gave 350 stat points, maybe I would feel different about this. But it does not.

  10. Eyliria says:

    I thought you should know there’s a ring at exalted with klaxxi. It’s from a quest that opens up at exalted, not a rep reward at the vendor. It’s 489 ilvl

  11. Tuscarora says:

    > Because, you know, trading 25 rating for ZERO

    The core error of your defense of +300 food. You don’t trade +25 stats for “ZEROMG”, you trade 25 rating for a valuable amount of time, a trade which Perculia/Hamlet argued it’s not worth it. You concede this point, but only after building a strawman to criticize their arguments or, more accurately, their style.

    Now I see that you refuse to grind Klaxxi rep to get the ring. Don’t you see the contradiction between your stances on 300 food and Klaxxi rings?

    > The Klaxxi ring is a nonzero DPS contribution. It’s just as simple as that. If you consider Klaxxi ring across the raid being estimated about x raid DPS, that’s k*x million worth of damage. Sure, less than 1% of a current boss health pool, but all you have to do is equipping the ring to get it. Yes, it’s well within your mistake range. Yes, it’s within the margin of error on sims. Yes, a breath of hesitation on one ability will make the same difference. I don’t care. It’s a (tiny, tiny) flat increase that you gain by sitting down and clicking some shit in your bags, and that’s all that matters.

    • anafielle says:

      Certainly. I never once argue that it’s correct to skip. In fact, it’s wrong. Totally, totally wrong. A point I made above pretty thoroughly.

      I would never argue that anyone who refuses to do Klaxxi “doesn’t understand optimization.” Hamlet is making the exact opposite point I am.

      I hate the food and I don’t want to use it. However, it IS the optimal upgrade and I dislike anyone who targets people who use it as specifically and as viciously as Hamlet did. He basically called out everyone who uses the food and called them idiots, in very specific terms.

      The food isn’t worth the effort. That doesn’t make it the wrong choice. Nor does it make you look pretentious to use it, or show that you’re sacrificing other time. It’s not the wrong option.

      If he had just argued that it wasn’t worthwhile, I would have agreed completely. Instead he chose to insult everyone he used to raid with in as creative terms as he could, and that I couldn’t stand.

      Use the food or don’t. It’s your choice. However, if you choose not to, admit that it’s a lesser choice– don’t tell everyone that they’re wrong, they look wrong, and furthermore, they look stupid for not agreeing. Or you know, you can– if your name is Hamlet.

  12. Narci says:

    Giant Mantis shrimp have the best droprate in pools, of course, but the pools share spawn with octopus. You can get Mantis Shrimp as the open water sea catches. Go down to the coast of Krasarang Wilds or out by the Arboretum and fish in the sea, you’ll catch the shrimp pretty quick.

  13. Helistar says:

    I am happy not to be in a top raiding guild. Honestly, if I were I would have quit the game and dumped it for good. I burned out of the incredibly stupid and lame Lotus/Klaxxi quests after less than one week. I’m not even at revered and while I will hit exalted one day, it will MAYBE be before the next expansion. The idea of mixing activities was a step back from Cataclysm (and even there, you needed Tol Barad rep for the trinkets), dungeons/raiding should be independent of dailies/rep grinds, as the two activities share absolutely nothing.

    On 275 vs 300 food: try to run simulatiocraft with iterations=30 (i.e. a typical raid evening). If you cannot spot the difference between the two runs there (i.e. ideal case with perfect execution), there’s no way on earth you’ll see it in reality. BTW looking at my character’s DPS distribution the difference is below sigma/30…. so good luck.

  14. sil says:

    I don’t know why you get so worked up he is absolutely right that hours of farming for a laughable 9% increase of a buff providing about 1% dps boost, e.g. 0.09% dps boost is not worth it no argument needed.

  15. Neonights says:

    casual crybaby , go play angry birds if you dont have time for a proper game

  16. Tim says:

    Lol Ana I love reading your posts, they give me a laugh in the morning. I read Theck’s posts when I want to be reminded of how much I hate math (oh and also what I should be doing as Prot) but I read your posts for enjoyment and to get caught up with what is going on in WoW as a whole. On a more serious note…in your previous post you said you had spreadsheets of gear you were looking for. If you have time my email is pdsmjm@gmail.com and I’d appreciate if you could email it to me, would save me a lot of research.

  17. Pingback: Raider Time Sinks: Dailies, Cooking, Fishing and More : Kurn's Corner

  18. saifansari says:

    Man, the time sink is killing me too.

    We cleared MSV last week, and I agree, it is the best tanking tier in a long, long time. Especially Will – so much fun. I’ll be writing up about it this week, I’m hoping this week’s raid will net us at least one if not two heroics, as both Guard and Feng seem like they’re doable in one week – but we’ll see!

    I’m desperately hoping we can get past the daily grind as soon as we can. Aaaaaand I’m still grinding Klaxxi for the epic ring at Exalted. >.< ugh ugh ugh.

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  21. Extermi says:

    I can totally agree to what you wrote. Being a very much time-limited hobby raider (6 kids will limit the free time you have quite severely), its just incredible how much I need to do to become competitive in my raid.

    You did not even mention what drives me even more crazy:
    – The PvP rewards are insanely good. Really. Especially since there are several mastery/haste/hit/Exp pieces that fits well to the “Control” gearing paradigm, and they are difficult to get elsewhere. Plus, their item level is high and they do not lose budget for the PvP stats. But: I do not want to run PvP in the limited time I have. Yet, I might be forved to do so.
    – The black market auction house sells heroic level gear for insane amounts of gold. 1-2 pieces of that will drastically chage how strong the character is, with each one pushing the average item level by 2-3 points. But, how to get so so so much gold ??


    • anafielle says:

      Agreed completely on both counts. I know for ret there were 2 compelling pieces, fortunately only the 2 I had to buy so I just translated JP into honor to get them.

      The BMAH is so thoroughly despised by my raid corps and guild that I think we have all mutually decided to never speak about it because it just pisses us all off so, so much.

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  23. DisRuptive1 says:

    You don’t have to spend 2 hours every night looking for Giant Mantis Shrimp pools. There are a bunch of them at Nayeli Lagoon (or whatever it’s called) in Krasarang Wilds. Also, be aware that they share spawns with Reef Octopus. If you can’t find Shrimp, fish up the Octopi and hope the pools respawn as shrimp.

  24. Brandon Rinebold says:

    I believe you’re misunderstanding the point your referenced blog is trying to make. It’s not that getting the stat buff is wrong. It’s that getting the stat buff is the last item on an absolutely massive list of things you could otherwise do with that time.

    His actual position is more along the lines of this:

    Are you absolutely, positively, 100% perfect in every other way? Sure, go farm yourself some 300 food if you have nothing better to do.
    Do you run a guild where every single one of your members is not required to bring absolutely perfect BIS pre-raid gear? Tell those slackers to start pulling their weight and get some 300 food.

    Are you somewhere below a top-5 raiding guild? Work on *anything else* to improve your gear because that food is a waste of your time compared to what you could have picked up during that time. Are you running that non-world-first guild? Tell your raiders to go work on something significant instead.

    He’s not arguing that the food is worthless. Just that practically everyone could be doing something far more valuable with that time.

    • Brandon Rinebold says:

      The only condition in which he says getting the food is *wrong* is when someone works on 300 buff food when they could be picking up an item from a heroic or grinding out some rep to fill in a slot or working on their rotation or reviewing the next fight strategy.

      People who “min-max” by fixating on the lowest time/effort ratios while ignoring things that are significantly more efficient are the people he says are wrong.

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