5.0.4 Tankadin Spreadsheet

As a result of a twitter discussion between Rhidach, myself, and Kerridos, I took some time the other day and wrote up a spreadsheet for balancing avoidance and calculating stat weights.  You can access it here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjPXp3A1frAgdFQzc3hRSjNuYUZDZzFqcjRESkVXb0E#gid=2

It’s on Google docs, obviously, so you can make your own copy via google docs, or you can choose to export it as an excel spreadsheet.  I gave it a brief run-through in excel and all of the formulas seem to continue to work.  If you notice any bugs, please let me know and I’ll fix them.  Also, as of right now I don’t have the base STR and STA values for non-Human races, if anyone who has time wouldn’t mind posting their naked stats in the comments, I’ll add those to the spreadsheet.

Here’s what the spreadsheet looks like:

All you need to do is enter your unbuffed character sheet stats in the green boxes, and it will calculate your parry/dodge ratio and TDR stat weights, and tell you whether you need more dodge or more parry to balance your avoidance diminishing returns.

Again, if you encounter any issues, please post them and I’ll try and get them fixed up.  Enjoy!

<edit> Raid buffs now included!  Toggle them on and off with the drop-down boxes just like you do with race, expertise, and L75 talent.  The Draenei racial hit bonus is included now as well.

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40 Responses to 5.0.4 Tankadin Spreadsheet

  1. Kerriodos says:

    Naked 85 Blood Elf in prot spec with no buffs has 161 STR and 317 STA (276+41 in tooltip)

    Also, huge thanks for doing this again. Big help. What kind of changes are

  2. Swurvin says:

    Also you are giving a 5% stam buff from kings which it is no longer getting. Maybe you should think about including the 10% stam buffs like fortitude, and Might as well as the strength/agil buffs

    • Swurvin says:

      Make them 0/1, T/F. I’ve already added in a section for raid buffs on mine but it might be useful for other people. Also the kings mistake is only in the lvl90 section so unless something is going to be added at max level it need fixing

      • Theck says:

        Good catch on Kings – that was originally supposed to be plate specialization for protection, but in retrospect that should show up in the unbuffed numbers.

        Though, in truth, stamina makes no difference on this sheet. It has no effect on your stat weights or your avoidance balancing, so it’s sort of irrelevant (and subsequently so is the 10% stam buff).

        I’ll try and add the relevant raid buffs in this week.

        • Theck says:

          Buffs added. Note that there is no more STR/AGI buff, so the only relevant ones are Kings (Stats) and Might (Mastery). I’ve included the rest, but none of them have any effect on the stat weights.

  3. Erik says:

    few things I noticed that i had not expected. (obv not necessarily wrong)

    first att 3449rating @90, (2018@85) on each Parry and Dodge before you want more parry then dodge rating (given the strength my characters had ofc). which was a much higher number then i had suspected, and a ratingnumber that feels unobtainable unless you go the “avoidance way” (at either 85 or 90)

    Other thing is that my TDR stat weights do not change for mastery for different values of hit/exp/haste, (when talent holy avenger was chosen).

    overall, nice with a spreadsheet and all.. however, i trust your stuff so much more when you make your points with matlab, feels more advanced (no matlab gui spreadsheet inc?) xD
    anyway, thx for all the work you put into this.. feels like Xmas whenever a new post here or on advanced theorycrafting @ maintankadin is up

  4. mbar23 says:

    I think there’s a slight bug around Pre-DR total Parry and Base Strength.

    In Pre-DR total Parry, you take the Base Strength away from the Net w/Kings value, but the Net w/Kings value doesn’t include the Base Strength in the first place. So, if you zero Strength and Parry Rating, you end up with negative Parry percentage.

    And as Erik mentions above, I think something is wrong with the stat weight calculations. I’ve tried some combinations of rating distributions and everything seem to end up with the conclusion that Mastery is always the best stat (aside from Hit to cap on occassion). Mastery seems to get better in relation to other stats with the more you have. I thought it was supposed to be the emo kid …

    • Theck says:

      Net with Kings does include Base Strength. It’s implicit in your unbuffed STR value.

      I’m not sure what you mean regarding mastery being the best stat; with the default values I have in the spreadsheet, dodge and parry are ahead of mastery.

      • mbar23 says:

        Apologies, ignore that, the new version of the spreadsheet is giving me the values I expect now. I had wrote a script to increase each stat in turn by 10 and get stat weights based on the change in TDR, which was giving me (considerably) different results for than your stat weights, but doing the same for the new version, everything is fine.

        Thanks for the work on this and everything in the past, Theck!

  5. mbar23 says:

    Oh, and some missing buffs etc.

    Draenei racial for 1% Hit isn’t implemented.
    Blessing of Might! 3,000 Mastery at level 90. :)

  6. Thank you for the spreadsheet. The “Avoidance balancing” is base on what situation exactly ? Does it balance it unbuff or consider full raid buff ?

    • Theck says:

      It’s based on whatever stats you put in. Once I add raid buffs separately, it should be easy to balance it under any conditions you like. Right now you’ll have to add most raid buffs (except Kings) manually.

  7. Tommy says:

    I don’t use spread sheets, but I am interested in learning.. so here’s my noob question… After I plug the numbers in.. what do I do next? (I have both Microsoft Excel and Open Office.)

    • Theck says:

      Nothing. The spreadsheet will automatically update as you put in your values. All you have to do is look at the avoidance balancing section to see whether you want more dodge or more parry, or look at the stat weight section to see how your stat weights work out in that gear set.

  8. Kimina says:

    I entered my stats and the result was I needed to add more dodge. As a test I started adding dodge by 5 to see the net result. At a certain point the sheet switches from dodge to parry. Is that “flip” essentially the break point?

  9. Swurvin says:

    So I was looking thru your spreadsheet after you commented on cam’s and I think you did a better job figuring the SoTR effect as your HP generation seems to be a better thought out then our lets both cap hit 7.5 and exp 15 and hit the dummy for hours and let recount tell us how many times it was cast. I have to look at it more to figure out how you are getting it on every third hp but on thing that stuck out to me was how you incorporated haste as (1+((Haste Rating/128.1)/100)) basically now I may be wrong but I thought if I had 50% haste then I’d cast twice as fast so it would be (1/((1-(Haste Rating/128.1))/100)

    • Swurvin says:

      thats wrong i meant to type (1/ (1-(Haste Rating/128.1)/100))

    • Theck says:

      I’m not sure why you want to spend hours testing SotR. SotR costs 3 Holy Power. You’ll cast 1 SotR for every 3 Holy Power you generate. It’s fairly straightforward to show that CS>J>AS is the rotation that gives the highest HPG (outside of Sanctified Wrath, in which case you switch to a J>CS>AS priority).

      You’re also wrong about how haste is calculated. You’d need 100% haste to cast twice as fast. It should be clear that your formula doesn’t work at that point (dividing by zero).

      If you have X% haste, then your cast times are reduced by 1/(1+X%). In our case, that applies to the cooldowns and GCDs of CS/J/AS. So for example, if you have 50% haste, your CS cooldown becomes 4.5s/(1+0.5) = 4.5/1.5 = 3 seconds. Your cast rate has thus gone from 1 every 4.5 seconds (1/4.5) to 1 every 3 seconds (1.5/4.5). As a result, haste is multiplicative with HPG, because each term has the form (1+haste%)/cooldown.

      • Swurvin says:

        no i fully understand casting SoTR every 3 HP i just wasnt sure how you eq for hp generation in taking into consideration generating 3 hp from what i can tell it just showing how often you are able to produce a single hp which is why we went to the dummies. to see practically how many hp we were producing thou id much rather find a way that didnt incorporate error

        • Theck says:

          The HP generation rate is based on the cooldowns and cast times of our abilities. CS is on a 4.5-second cooldown, so we get 1/4.5 HP per second from that. In the rotation, J is on an effective cooldown of 6.75 seconds, so it generates 1/6.75 HP per second. Since Grand Crusader procs are tied to CS, that’s another 0.2/4.5 HP per second, as you’re guaranteed to have the GCDs to use AS. That’s all assuming hit/exp cap, of course, incorporating misses, dodges, and parries adds extra factors.

          It might be worth reading through the full derivation of the formulas, as that addresses all of these issues:
          http://sacredduty.net/2012/08/14/mop-beta-mitigation-stat-weights-b15961/

          • Swurvin says:

            thanks for the tip lol. cam is the guy that reads ur stuff and everything ive know is from him so my first time really on here was a couple of days ago. also that was actually really stupid of me to ask since 3hp=3sec shield so 1 hp gen is the same as shield gen…only thing i notice is you have 4/3 as the multiplier for uptime with divine purpose and i would think it should be 5/4 since 25% would mean about a proc every 4 meaning 5/4 not 4/3

          • Theck says:

            You’re forgetting that it can chain proc. When that is taken into account, it increases the SotR cast rate by a factor of 1/(1-0.25), which is how you get 4/3. That’s also covered in the derivation I linked.

          • Swurvin says:

            oh good call on the chain proc i actually looked at what u did and it just seemed like you misread the talent or something cuz ur explanation didnt make it clear where that was coming from but after doing it myself i see ur just simplifying the it from Σ[i=0,∞,.25^i] which then = 1/(1-.25)

  10. Swurvin says:

    well wow wiki says that im wrong lol. thats what i get for trusting a caster i guild lol

  11. mbar23 says:

    Is it worth adding a note to the spreadsheet to clarify that the stat weight for Armor is for 3 points of Armor, whereas the others is for 1 point?

    I know why it’s for 3 points, but for those not following along from your other posts, Armor looks awesome. :)

  12. Traynrek says:

    First time using this spreadsheet, can you please explain how to toggle thru the buffs. I can’t seem to do it. Thanks.

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