Hey guys, I have something more to say after Tuesday’s post. Bear with me a bit here.
I know that Tuesday’s post wasn’t really a pleasant blog post for 10 man raiders to read, and the point of it is not to sit here and berate you. I’m not trying to tell you you are lesser raiders– pretty much the opposite actually. Blizzard’s failure to tune any of their recent raids evenly is a loss for everyone, for 10s and for 25s both. I always hope that people won’t see me as an elitist just because I take the side of 25 HM raids, and that my arguments are convincing without being totally patronizing.
I truly hope that there is a way for us to coexist peacefully. Unfortunately right now that is a long way from the reality.
I’m going to start by explaining why I raged so badly on Tuesday.
I care what the devs say.
A stupidly high percentage of my like or dislike of an MMO is caught up in what I hear from devs and blue posts. I have been to Blizzard HQ and I have seen their crazy awesome statue and their mottos engraved in stones on the ground. Every Voice Matters. I believe that they believe it. Emails, blog posts, blue posts, CM twitter feeds… these things have a huge effect on whether I see myself raiding in MOP or whether I am depressingly looking at a game with an expiration date.
And I think that is what firestormed the community after Daelo’s commentary on Cataclysm came out. We felt like he hadn’t listened to a thing! Raiders’ voices hadn’t mattered one bit. We all know tuning is a problem even if everyone completely disagrees about where the problem is. It’s a hellish problem, and it’s also impossible to discuss without pissing everyone off. For god’s sake, I know for a fact that devs know it’s a sticky issue. For Daelo to pick, of all of the things he could have picked about Cataclysm, for him to pick with his very first comment that “tuning across multiple raid formats was a success” — it was really unpleasant to read.
We soon after got GC’s post, and that was a lot better. I know I read his post thinking, “Thank god, someone’s listening!” and imagined that he really did appreciate our thirst for difficult content. He paints a picture of a game that I see myself playing happily. Even cynical Meloree admitted to us that the kool aid sounded pretty tasty. It was a good PR ploy.
Of course, there is one thing that was conspicuously missing from GC’s post. He did not mention multiple raid sizes a single time.
…. That was definitely not an accident.
If you are a 10 man raider and you are still reading– well, thank you.
I didn’t really expect 10 man raiders to take my arguments seriously at all. It’s easy for 10 mans to be quite satisfied (just as, to be completely fair, 25 man raiders have been for the history of the game) in the revitalization and competitive nature of their content level. In fact I am generally surprised to find when 10 man raiders agree with me and I was really happy with everyone who commented on Tuesdays post. Especially the disagreement with me! That is my favorite part.
10 man raiding has it good. You guys get challenging content, and you have gotten it for the first time, and you have access to every bit of the rewards that were reserved in previous times for those of us who wanted to put up with more sheep herding logistics. You get the full fight, not the cut down version missing mechanics, and that’s pretty freaking cool.
And so we 25 man raiders sound really petty when we whine.
I am pretty sure my attitude if I raided 10s would be like, some sympathy for the math and the logic, and then a lot of /rolleyes, and anger over the patronization, but mostly a big sense of …. “You had 7 years. GO AWAY. It’s our turn; go raid your raids and let us raid ours!”
I saw a little of this on twitter with people who did not @ me, but who commented obliquely on my post. I follow you guys, I did see it.
“Can’t we all just get along?” or “This discussion makes me sad.”
It doesn’t work like that though. We can’t just leave you alone. Because Blizzard is killing 25s, and 10s are the knife in their hands.
You can check the numbers on WOW progress. 25 mans are on the way out.
Now to be fair, this isn’t really visible at the very top. Hardmode 25 man guilds, the really serious ones, aren’t moving to 10s in droves. We are the “25 fo lyfe” type, that will raid 25s until we all burn out and retire. 25 man raiders, you know it’s true. So you will see a pretty even percentage and number of 25 man guilds that are moving through and finishing all the heroic mode content.
It’s the guilds in the middle. The ones who are raiding for fun and with friends, and who bump up against an attendance problem, or a leadership problem, or who get seriously frustrated on what the devs call a “bottleneck” fight that is just really, really unpleasant. Once they make a move to 10, even if it’s just temporary, they never go back.
Of course it’s more fun to go to 10 mans for a while, and to recover some of that raiding enjoyment that we all like. But the journey from 25 to 10 when a guild encounters a bump is a one way journey– you don’t come back up to 25, there is no point. The encounter feels different, the encounter is tuned more tightly. And what do you get? You have to herd more cats through harder content for less reward. And as more and more 25 man guilds trickle down to 10 mans, there are less and less that end up committed to the larger raid size.
So sure, there’s inertia at the top, and the HM guilds who are damn well committed to 400 pull fights will stay in 25 until the cows come home…. but there are less and less of us every day.
We believe in 25s, but I guess not everyone does.
So yeah, I care a lot about the 10 vs 25 question, and not because I just want to bitch and moan. I care because I want to see my content level survive in the face of a much more attractive, easier (I’m sorry, but it’s sometimes true) raid size option that is treated as precisely the same task by the game.
In fact, I’ve even written about this topic before. Two tasks that are completely different which are treated the same way by WOW. Remember this post on turning on or off the Dragon Soul buff?
I mean, there is one obvious solution and that’s to take 25 mans out entirely. That is frankly what a lot of my cohorts have suspected is in the works for MOP. No 25 man raids, only 10 man raids.
Please forgive me if that option horrifies me. I would hate to raid in a format that wasn’t 25 just as much as some of you would hate to raid in a format that isn’t 10. I want us both to survive.
Conclusion: We all REALLY NEED to care about this problem
I’m ranting, I know.
But my point is that 10s, please don’t hate on me. Just because I’m angry at Blizz about your tuning doesn’t mean that I am trying to patronize you. I think it’s obvious that there’s a problem, and I have tried to lay that problem out. And I think that the problem with your tuning is affecting my raid content.
Which is why I’m so very worked up about the problem. And that’s why you’ll get pages and pages of commentary from 25 man raiders who are probably a little bit more frustrated than they should be and a little bit angrier sounding than they really should be. We are seeing our chosen content level shudder to a slow but certainly-happening death and it’s really not a pleasant thing to experience.
It’s not because we’re mad at YOU — it’s because when we see a tuning problem and everyone tries to pretend like they are equal, that hurts participation in our content. It hurts 25s as a whole.
So I really hope that Blizzard has some plans for this.
What we’ve heard so far is…….. nothing. Daelo was wrong, this week, and Ghostcrawler was silent on the topic. Please Ghostcrawler, please, write us a blog on 10 and 25 man raid sizes. You’ll probably have to wear a bulletproof vest for a month and move into a bomb shelter, but we have got to hear something.
We really, really need some guidance here.
The blues have been too silent and that silence has GOT to end.
PS: You know what else we need? Or that I need? A blog design that handles long comments one hell of a lot better. I love you all. <3